Utah Gov. Spencer Cox is comfortable bringing his faith into politics. He is less comfortable with a trend he perceives: "Politics is replacing religion."
Cox drew widespread attention in September after the assassination of the activist Charlie Kirk in Utah. After briefing the public on the arrest of the suspect, the governor added a personal appeal for Americans to think about politics differently. "I would encourage people to log off, turn off, touch grass, hug a family member, go out and do good in your community," he said.
Just before the Thanksgiving holiday, NPR sat with Cox for a conversation on the state of the country. He addressed the aftermath of the Kirk shooting in a divided nation — and discussed other issues, from nuclear power to artificial intelligence, that he sees as connected to those divisions.
The conversation appears across several NPR platforms — on Morning Edition, in a special episode of Up First podcast, and in a video you can watch above or on YouTube.
Below are some key points from the conversation.
He says people heard and embraced his message in September
"We have to decide: Is this an off-ramp?" Cox said, adding that he believes some people are taking it. "Here we are months later, and the response continues to be overwhelmingly positive."
He described meeting a mother whose son, she said, wanted to redirect his life, after hearing the governor's remarks. Cox also said he heard about the comments as far as New Zealand, where he traveled as part of a trade delegation.
A conservative Republican, Cox governs a state whose voters have sometimes been willing to tolerate criticism of President Trump. He describes his faith as "core" to how he approaches politics.
He remains concerned about a divided nation
Cox has made a signature issue out of "disagreeing better," as he puts it: treating political opponents with civility.
"We keep thinking if we just win this election, we'll never have to work with those people," he said. But the Constitution requires that "we will always have to work with those people. That's how this gets done. We have to build coalitions."
"We're looking for tribes somewhere," he said. "And we're finding that in politics. Politics is replacing religion."
He questions Trump's promise to investigate liberal groups
Cox said if groups really are encouraging violence, then "we should hold them accountable." But after the Kirk assassination, "every single Democrat I know that I talked to about this was just appalled."
He said he preferred to focus on one gunman who was responsible.
"In my faith, we believe in agency. We believe that we are responsible for our own decisions and that other people aren't responsible for those. And so to try to attack an entire group of people or an ideology because of one person isn't right and isn't fair."
His critics include some on the right
Cox spoke at the first gathering of Kirk's organization, Turning Point USA, after the assassination. Some in the crowd booed him. Kirk had previously called for Cox to be expelled from the Republican party in 2022 after the governor vetoed legislation banning trans athletes from girls' sports in schools.
Cox said he thought it was worth going before a crowd that differed with him, and once he explained his reasons for the veto, the crowd applauded. He has argued that the legislation targeted just a handful of athletes, was poorly conceived and would simply lead to lawsuits.
He says Trump hasn't taken up the opportunity to unify the nation
Cox said he didn't vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020, but endorsed him in 2024 after an assassination attempt in Butler, Pa. He called Trump's survival a "miracle" and said that only he could unify the nation. Asked whether this has happened, Cox said: "I think if you were to ask him that question, he would say no. I don't think that's happened."
He nevertheless said the endorsement was valuable because "I have an opportunity to have a relationship with the president. And I think that's very important to me. It's very important to Utahns."
Cox said Trump called him after the Kirk assassination and praised his appeal for unity, even though Trump "hasn't modeled that, and he sees the world a little differently than I do."
The radio version of this interview was produced by Taylor Haney and edited by Arezou Rezvani.
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