AILSA CHANG, HOST:
OK. So yesterday, the Italian art police in Parma captured 21 pieces of art - art that is suspected of being Salvador Dali forgeries. This is not the first time that works by the 20th century Spanish surrealist have been called into question. It turns out Dali is among the most commonly forged artists. We're joined now by Colette Loll, a longtime art fraud investigator. Welcome.
COLETTE LOLL: Thank you. So nice to be here.
CHANG: So nice to have you. OK, so just curious, what was your reaction when you first heard about this seizure yesterday?
LOLL: Well, it wasn't a surprise, I'll be honest, because this is pretty common. We see it in the field quite a bit in the art market. But also this is, I think, the third major seizure that the Carabinieri has done just with Salvador Dali works.
CHANG: And the Carabinieri is like the Italian art police division?
LOLL: Yes. It is kind of the famous art police squad based in Rome. And they are pretty much well-known across the globe as being the most sophisticated investigators for art crime.
CHANG: Wow. What are some of the methods that these experts use to identify forgeries?
LOLL: Typically, art authentication has always followed what we call, like, the three-legged stool. There's three legs of authentication. There's the stylistic analysis, which is really subjective. There's provenance, which is the history of ownership and can also include an exhibition history. Most importantly is a scientific analysis, and that's the most important now because science doesn't lie.
CHANG: Why is Dali's work forged so often? I didn't know that.
LOLL: Yeah, that's really interesting. So what a lot of people don't know about Salvador Dali is that in the 1970s and '80s he was reportedly signing thousands of blank sheets of paper for publishers to use in later limited-edition prints. And so many of these sheets were either misused or taken advantage of. Some may have been signed under questionable circumstances when his health was declining. But the flood of genuine signatures on dubious works created this really fertile ground for forgery. Also, there is a huge global demand. I mean, his surreal imagery is widely recognizable...
CHANG: Yeah.
LOLL: ...And appeals to a broad audience. And then also, the print market is very vulnerable. So unlike unique oil paintings, prints exist in multiples, and so provenance standards are often much looser.
CHANG: OK. Well, just to go back to the Carabinieri - this Italian art police force - I'm just wondering, I mean, they're so fierce. They obviously are quite busy. Is there really that much art crime in Italy that the police have this whole separate art crime division?
LOLL: Yeah, they're quite renowned. They were founded in 1969, and they were the first police unit in the world that was dedicated specifically to combating art crime. And so Italy has more UNESCO World Heritage sites than any other country and an enormous share of the world's cultural treasure. So that made it a prime target for looting and smuggling, and so hence the need for a specialized force. But the Carabinieri is not the only international art crime police that we see. There's also - the FBI right here has a dedicated art crime squad.
CHANG: Oh.
LOLL: And also, the - Scotland Yard has an art and antiquities unit. So there are many other divisions of international law enforcement that specialize in cultural heritage crime.
CHANG: That is Colette Loll, a longtime art fraud investigator. Thank you so much for joining us today, Colette.
LOLL: You are welcome. Thank you for having me.
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